Tuesday, 20 May 2008

McCain - What a dick

He says Al-Qaeda are being trained in Iran - The fact is Sunni and Shia extremists are mortal enemies.

This has crystallised my mind: Obama for President.


Tu S.Tin said...

I feel this election is like the final decision ....
I cant even stand to look at Maccain's face


Ross said...

Well Iran is generally thought to support Hamas, who are Sunni extremists so it isn't as thought they have some moral qualms about supporting Sunni fanatics.

marvin said...

That's a fair point Ross. Though I feel like it's more of a case of my enemies' enemy is my friend. An alliance against a common satan. Ideologically Sunni and Shia are closer than the Jews or the Christians of course.

The fact that sticks in my mind is that Al-Qaeda in Iraq, not so long, ago declared war on the Shias. In my mind McCains error, not a small one, rang alarm bells.

Al-qaeda are not being trained in Iran. I think people in power should know the facts. Or, if it were a genuine mistake, be able to effectively correct that mistake. If he had sad sorry, I was referring to Hizbollah, then all would be forgiven. But he didn't. He really didn't seem to know quite what he was talking about.

I appreciate a lot of people I would normally agree with on many issues such as taking a hard line on Islamic fanaticism will be hoping for McCain, and are afraid that Obama will fall for the appeasement trap. I am aware of this... But, I don't feel it. Not really. He said he would bomb Pakistan if Al-Qaeda were there. He said he supports Israel. I don't think he's as lilly-livered as he's made out to be in some quarters.

Sonic Charmer said...

It would be fascinating to hear how it is that you, marvin, know for a fact that no single Al Qaeda person is being trained in Iran. Do you know this for reasons besides the well-known physical law that Shia and Sunnis cannot cooperate on endeavors? (I don't know when this physical law was discovered, exactly, but I do know that many people now believe in it.) Or do you know it for other reasons besides that? And why does it make McCain a "dick"? Maybe you know for a fact that he's wrong (how?) but even if he's wrong, how does that make him a "dick"? If you turn out to be wrong in the other direction, does that make you a dick? Why is this issue dick-worthy, in other words? Where's the high crime exactly in being "wrong" about which fanatical a-holes some other group of fanatical a-holes is training?

Also, in the comment you make it clear that you're aware that people who don't nec. like each other can nevertheless cooperate against common enemies due to the enemy-of-my-enemy principle. But so then why does this magically not apply to the single case of Iran and Al Qaeda?

Here's a fascinating article from 2004. I guess that was just a mass delusion. Indeed, I recall that
back then, and especially prior to the Iraq invasion, people who opposed Bush and who opposed Iraq hawkism liked to say stuff like "besides, Iran has far more ties to Al Qaeda than Iraq ever did". They said this in hopes that it would deflate efforts to drum up support for invasion of Iraq, of course. Well, now that Iran itself is a primary issue, many folks - often the same people - have suddenly discovered the magical Shias-can't-possibly-cooperate-with-Sunnis principle. Ah well, consistency is a high hurdle in these things I suppose; the important thing as always is to prevent the U.S. from ever using her military, and to ensure that she always has unscathed enemies out there who will keep her in check.

Sorry to see you've bought into it though.

Anyway, if nothing else I'm jealous. Jealous of how you can KNOW for CERTAIN stuff like whether any single human being associated with "Al Qaeda" has ever been trained by anyone on the payroll of Iran (the answer being no, apparently). I certainly don't know that for certain which I suppose just proves I'm not as smart as you, i.e. don't know the "facts". Sigh.

Anonymous said...

Obama is an extreme leftist who will let AQ in the back door. McCain knows what h is fighting for.

marvin said...

Obama is far from an extreme leftist. He's left-of-centre. He's going to let Al-Qaeda in the back door, how exactly?

Obama said "The time to fix our broken immigration system is now… We need stronger enforcement on the border and at the workplace"

Sonic Charmer, did you watch the video clip? McCain retracted his statement moments after he said it, moments after being corrected by one of his aides. This does not inspire confidence in me.

Maybe I was a little harsh with the 'dick' thing. I'm sure he's a nice enough guy. I just feel that McCain will be like another Bush, making gaffe after gaffe. It wouldn't matter so much if Bush had the quick wit and superior intelligence to back it up, but he doesn't.

I'm sure McCain is a smarter man than Bush, but I'm bored of the Republicans. The democrats think they can do so much better. Why not let them try? If they fuck it up, then just vote them out. They're hardly going to bring America to it's needs. The Americans, like the British, are a very resilient people.

I do, actually, think McCain is right on Iraq however, and I do worry about a Democrat who may just withdraw troops without a powerful Iraqi infrastructure in place. This would be a disaster, worse then letting Saddam carry on his regime of terror over the Iraqi people.

I respect McCains' stance on civil liberties and use of torture, and am aware he spent 5 years of his life as a prisoner of war. He knows what he's talking about in that arena.

I am sure both Obama and McCain would do many good things for America and the world. It's not the end of the world if a left-centre democrat gets to the Whitehouse. It could be excellent for the Republican party to reform and become a better party.

Tu S.Tin said...

oh!! here we go with the labeling!!
I think if elected people will be surprised by how forceful Obama actually is.
One thing I like about him is he has obviously spent time learning about some of our past great presidents and
as a person,kind of reminds me a lot of Abraham Lincoln.
I get a feeling he has a plan and will not be swayed from it. His talk to pull troops from Iraq is not that simple Marvin. He doesn't give up to many details - which I is pretty smart. but some things he has said are that he will listen to the ground troops and what they need! And that there WILL be an end! I am positive that is not to be translated as we give up.
And what about Afghanistan? No one seems to remember that war.... and its where he would like to see more effort.
I could list a hundred things I don't like about Maccain.
If his statement "I don't know anything about economics" doesn't worry people?? ......but judging by the anti-obama crowds choice of propaganda, his supporters can be defined in 2 words...
Red -
They don't call him Mcbush for nothing.. and there is a photo of him hugging Bush that gave me chills to see. all I could think from the look on his face - was Randal Flaggs trash can man from the stand!
I'm sure someone saying we will fight in Iraq for 100 years if necessary sounds good - but what does that mean really? and he has also said way to much about "oil" ...
not to mention his public red faced temper tantrums.

marvin said...

*I mean knees, not needs


Roland Dodds said...

I think it was a gaff by McCain, and he has made a few this campaign.

In a way, I would like to have the Democrats in power to give this fight we are in a bipartisan approach. One where every time something goes wrong, it isn’t Bush’s fault but the reality of fighting a long and important struggle against a theocratic and totalitarian ideology. It is sad that many Democrats will need one of their own in office to make this fight legit to them, but if that is what it takes, then so be it.

But “Tus.tin,” your argument for Obama is pretty weak. Obama not giving details and giving a clear policy on just about any issue is not a strong sign for his candidacy. Maybe he will be just the kind of guy I want as President, but I don’t cast my vote based on a whim and a hope. I want concrete examples, and the few Obama has provided have not been reassuring.

And no, most of McCain’s supporters are not “red necks.” Whatever that means. While McCain may not be experienced in economics, neither is Obama.

As for McCain’s “100 years” comment, I can explain it pretty easily. In the same way we are still stationed in places like Korea, McCain finds it acceptable that we support a developing democracy for as long as our support is necessary. He did not say, nor does he think we are going to be in the combat stage we are currently involved in for “100 years.”

Letters From A Tory said...

He has all the military experience that you would want in a President, but he's still a warmonger and will make the world a lot more dangerous.

Tu S.Tin said...

"your argument for Obama is pretty weak. Obama not giving details and giving a clear policy on just about any issue is not a strong sign for his candidacy. Maybe he will be just the kind of guy I want as President, but I don’t cast my vote based on a whim and a hope."

I wasn't really giving an argument, I was making conversation.
Whim? no..... and "hope" is a 4 letter word but when did its definition take on such a negative meaning?
I dont mean this to be a personal attack on your comment Roland, but your argument against Obama is very tired- cut and paste.... as it has been the opening for almost every debate/headline out there..... and it makes me think no one can think for them selves or take the time to actually think at all, if they did they would know Obama has said - how can he make "clear policy" when there are many months till the election, and things are ever changing.... and there is too much information he does not have access too yet.... understand?
also.... the withdrawal troops was prefixed "best case scenario".....
besides its pretty stupid to publicly declare a military strategy don't you think?
if you look at everything they all say..broken down its all basically the same??
So a big part of this election is more the person not the policies!